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September 12, 2011

Comments

Check your data. According to the NCES, enrollment is NOT decreasing. In fact, "total public school enrollment is projected to set new enrollment records each year from 2009 through 2018, reaching an estimated high of 53.9 million students in 2018." this plus hundreds of thousands of layoffs means big increases in class size. And Hanushek has been a vehement opponent of reducing class size for years, even to the extent of pawning off distorted research to support his views. See Alan Krueger on this.

Thanks for your comment, Leonie. The data I cited from Ingersoll and Hanushek looks at the relationship between student population growth and teacher workforce growth over the last several decades. Both researchers acknowledge that the student population has grown, but not as fast as the teacher population has. Hanushek: "we see that student enrollment in 2007 is 22 percent greater than in 1990, but teacher employment is 41 percent greater."

Michelle Rhee, however, is certainly claiming thatt enrollment is down, and you are correct to note the NCES data shows the opposite nationally. I would only add that on the ground locally, many troubled districts, like Detroit, have lost students over the past decade.

Source: http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=65

I can't believe that I've forgotten the name of the respected housing economist I heard on CSpan, but I will look him up. He said that US population will grow faster than that of China, India, or Mexico.

Sounds like the specifics here are based in Rhee's narcissism. Districts that she knows are decreasing.

Perhaps reformers aren't saying that we will NEED fewer teachers. They WANT fewer teachers. They want more computer systems in lieu of teachers.

What they really want is fewer Baby Boomers. They are too shortsighted to know that the question they should be asking is how many Baby Boomers do they need? The answer is, more than they will keep.

How much of the increase in the number of teachers is due to an increase in special education services? Thanks to the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act originally passed in 1975, schools are required by law to provide "a free and appropriate education" for ALL students. This has led to a dramatic increase in teachers due to the required small self-contained classes or inclusion classrooms (classes staffed by TWO teachers, a Gen Ed and Special Ed teacher.)

Every time I hear people complain about the dramatic increase in costs in schools over the past four decades (i.e. Bill Gates), I cringe. Are people forgetting that before that law, we didn't bother to educate children with disabilities at all? Aren't most of the costs and the flat test scores a result of taking on giving kids who are more difficult to educate a fair chance?

Much of the growth in teachers is indeed attributable to IDEA, and not due to class size reduction per se. Pupil/teacher ratio does not necessarily equal class size.

Moreover, the decrease in pupil/teacher ratio since between 1990-2006 was only very slight in elementary schools, and none at all in HS. see indicator 31 at http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009081.pdf

Finally, several experts have posited that the narrowing of the achievement gap that occurred between 1970 & 1990 may have been at least partly attributable to class size reduction, and that the relative lack of progress that has occurred since then relates to the lack of progress that we have made in reducing class size. See for example The Black White achievement gap: When progress stopped by Paul Barton of ETS at http://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pdf/PICBWGAP.pdf

Moreover, I question your conclusion that "Teachers unions will applaud, while some advocates will be disappointed." You entirely omit parents, who are some of the strongest supporters of class size reduction, as are voters generally.

In fact, even in a conservative state like Texas, voters of both parties say they support higher taxes -- if you can guarantee that the revenue will go to reduce class size. It is quite simplistic to imply that this is a debate solely between teacher unions and "some advocates".

Thanks Leonie for posting the stats related to special education and increases in the teaching force. It's a point too often lost in the debate.

One more thing in regards to class size. Many advocates of larger class sizes point to Asia as an example of how larger class sizes don't matter.

As someone who taught English for three years in a Japanese high school, I can speak to that false assumption directly. My freshman classes had on average about 42 kids in a class. BUT many of the students literally slept through the class. Why? Because most of the kids had to attend cram schools for hours and hours each night where they got that individualized, 1:1 or at most 1:4 adult attention. The cram schools are private institutions almost every family saved heavily to afford. Add to that, there were NO SPECIAL EDUCATION students at the school (any kids with disabilities are placed into completely separate schools, and those with minor disabilities just don't test into the "academic" high schools.) Lastly, the community I worked in, like most of Japan, was nearly all middle class. Poverty and its effects were not an issue.

Class size matters. All the research show it. I am proud that our country has valued educating children with disabilities. I hope these silly reforms don't take that away.

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